timers

[mitche]

I need to control some patio heaters. Normally we use Leviton 30-60min timers. We like to make sure the heaters will go off and not be left on all night under the T&G ceiling. As of now they will just be on and off. Besides setting time clock function to turn them of say, at every hour, I would like more precise control. I won't ask if Lutron is planning this for Ra2. I know the answer " conditional logic is for homework only".

Any ideas on interfaces or relay modules that can accomplish this task?

Thanks
Mitch

[bradkas]

You could use the VCRX to trigger a motor control circuit with a timer relay that would then open and close the 240V heater circuit.

Very kludge, but it would work.

[mitche]

Thanks Brad

Exactly what i was thinking. Just not familiar with what type of timer relay.
Also the heaters are 24volt. Transformers easily accessible in the attic.
So I need to input control from VCRX and output to 120volt trans.

Don't mind kludge if it works. Don't want the customer do deal with kludgish stuff. Defeats the whole idea of home control.

[mitche]

Ok there's got to be a way to do this.
Looking at IDEC relay/timers
Fire inspector was OK with turning of heater at every hour with multiple time clock events. Homeowner not so much.
Small hold outs like this really make the system look bad.

Another function for timed switches would be for bath fans.
Or turning of ext lights 20min after pushing the away button.
I know......CL.

Attachments:

[Jimm Reifsnyder]

In this case honestly Mitche they system was not designed for this type of activity. Repeat after me "HomeWorks QS Wireless is my answer."

But why not use a system like RTI to add conditional logic?? I have a few dealers who are using RTI as their front end control and are doing all types of conditional controls.

[mitche]

I'll look into it.
Thanks Jimm

[Davethewave3]

I think that a timer switch is a small request that should be added to the RA 2 system as well as a photocell that can be used in the programing. It is senceless to use third party controllers or relays to accomplish energy saving lighting control for our clients. Lutron is missing the boat by trying to protect the HWQS installers. I have completed many inclusive systems with well over 100 devices to show up in the morning and the landscape lighting is on. Setting multiple time clock functions to assimilate conditional logic doesn't cut the mustard. I really want to get behind this product, I sell quite a bit of it, but it is hard to sell with conviction when you are aware of obvious flaws. Thank you for listening.

[Eric]

There is a lutron product that may work as an automatic timer for some applications. It is called the lrf2-series sensors. They work with RA2. Its not perfect, and works best as a 15 or 30 min timer in a bathroom fan application. Set the sensor in the bathroom into vacancy mode and 30 min timeout, and in the software have it only control the bathroom. The software allows you to add delays to whatever switch you want, so you could have the lights shut off after 30 mins and the fan after say 45 mins. Only problem is that the sensor wont see you when you take a 31 min shower. So you will have to turn the fan on again when you finish your long shower. Alternative ideas might be two sensors, one for fan and one for lights.

[davethewave3]

Thanks for that. It sounds like the best work around. Trying to figure out the daylight sensor override. Looked into putting entire exterior lighting circuit on a standard time clock or photo sensor. Problem here is that when the dimmers come on some will jump to preset light level, which requires an additional timeclock event to turn off. Putting a photo cell on the load produces issues when trying to transfer programming durring the day. Really need the photo control attached to the programming if we are going to sell this product as an " Energy management system"

[davethewave3]

I attempted to use LRF2 sensor in the vacancy mode as a timer. I want to have a progamable button for a circulating pump in a bathroom. I wanted to trigger the pump with a button press and have the vacancy sensor positioned under the sink time out in five minutes. Turns out that the vacancy sensor needs to experience some movement before it will time out. Any one out there have another thought.

[maguire]

This is odd, I would've thought that this is exactly how Vacancy mode would work. Shouldn't require any movement to function as a vacany type sensor. I am going to try this in my own house, and see what comes of it.

This should be an easy way to do a timer

[bradkas]

Yes this is correct.

Because the sensor is a one way device it does not 'know' the lights have been turned on.

All it does is send an off command once it times out which had to be initiated by movement.

The lack of communication between the devices and sensors coupled with no conditional programming makes them behave very odd (not incorrect, just counter intuitive) when not controlling loads exclusively.

[davethewave3]

Experienced the same problems. Trying to set the vacancy for one minute allows the sensor to time out the pump while in the shower. Just need to make sur your shower is longer than a minute. Daylight sensor in the programing would be my top request. Working outside on the exterior kitchen and witnessed the cleaning person press the wrong button on the way out and turn on the exterior landscape lighting. Can't fix stupid without a daylight sensor. Just doesn't make sense to use third party integration when a simple device could fix the problem. People with lighting control become frustrated when these types of events happen. It is frustrating to be an installer and have your hands tied.

[Eric]

Hey dave:

It sounds like your bathroom circ pump should work fine with the lrf2 sensor. Why would you hide the sensor under the cabinet though? Place the sensor in the bathroom so it can identify occupancy and vacancy of people. It should then work as follows:

-You walk into the bathroom and everything was off
-The sensor in vac mode sees you enter but does nothing about it
-You manually turn on the pump via keypad
-You do your business in the bathroom
-You leave the bathroom
-The sensor begins to timeout
-5 mins later the sensor timeouts and sends the signal to turn off the pump

[davethewave3]

Lrf2 works fairly well. I set it for a one minute time out. What I am trying to accomplish is a one minute time out from the button press regardless of motion. I was able to accomplish this by using my appliance module to power a coil on an adjustable time out relay. I was just trying to limit the circ pump to the minimum cycle necessary to push the water to the bathroom. The next thing I really want to accomplish is a way to be able to override all the exterior lights with a daylight sensor. It would be great if there was a way in the programing to check a box on the dimmer that would be tied to the dusk and dawn settings on the astro clock. I think I am looking at a lighting contactor and another coil attached to a photo cell. Lutron could make this easier. Thanks for the input. I really feel we could all improve the system with a little networking!