Dimming LED in new construction

[mitche]

Any ideas. Cans are Elite or Halo.
Will a interface module work.

[Bailey]

Mitch-
Use the RRD6NA dimmer. Phase adaptive that reads the fixture and assigns the appropriate dimming curve.

[lightingdziner]

Elite and Juno both can be specced with Lutron drivers in their LED fixtures.
The cost does go up on each can, but in my opinion it is well worth it.
Just the same when it comes to dimming recess CFLs. I always use Lutron ballast in them as well.

If the home owner can not afford this, then you can look at the Cree LR4, LR6, CR6.
The Cree CR series is a lower cost retro fit can that does not have the higher CRI, and does not dim as well as the LR series. That being said the color of the LRs and the CRs is very nice.

Juno, and Elite both have LED recess cans that can dim via a 6D, but as Bailey said use a 6NA.
You get much smoother dimming using the 6NA, and you are also future proofing the home.

Now if you have a good budget for new recess lights, Lutron's Evalo recess are one of the best looking LED cans I have ever seen.
Not to mention the dimming characteristics on them are built for Lutron dimmers.

One thing I always do for my clients in the decision making on LEDs for their homes, is pick up the LEDs that they might be thinking about, and throw them on a dimmer so they get a really good idea of just what they are getting.
You would be surprised how many home owners that are "greenies" change their minds once they see just what they want to install into their own homes.
Not just that, it also helps you out as the contractor. Being called back once the drywall is closed up, is the wrong time to replace something the home owner does not like.
Just like when it comes to selecting speakers for your self. Do you just take the word of the salesman on what sounds the best?
No you listen to the speakers to see which pair you think sounds good.
The same holds true for lighting.
There are many contributing factors for selecting lighting for ones home.
Finish color is a HUGE factor. Color of walls, work surfaces, floors, all play into fixture selection.
You need to be looking at the photo metrics of the light source as well. Not to mention with LED's the color of the LED itself is different in every manufactures fixture.
Most white LED's are truly not white. The white color is derived from using a BLUE LED, and then a phosphorus coating on the top.
The yellow you often see on the top of the LED lamp is phosphorous.

OH! By the way.
With cheap LED's the phosphorous breaks down relatively fast. Which is why the LED fixtures start to turn blue, and your clients call you back mad.

There is also one other VERY important fact about LED lighting.
If your clients have any children (or them selves) that are Autistic, or have epilepsy YOU NEED TO DO YOUR HOME WORK ON THE LIGHTS YOU ARE INSTALLING!
There are quite a few LED fixtures that flicker. Just like old fluorescents, and CRTs some LED's do flicker.
The flickering absolutely has negative health effects on people with the disabilities.
This negative effect also comes into play with the curly CFL retro lamps.
Again as a contractor you need to be sure you are installing something that will not harm your clients, and their families.

Facts are facts.

There will be failures in LED recess cans, wether it comes in a year, or even five years down the road.
LEDs are not "light bulbs". They are semiconductors. Just like any semiconductor, be it in your computer, stereo, main repeater....
Heat will destroy it.
Most recess cans are in very high heat environments. Which simply put they will have failures, no matter what the manufacture claims.

I personally feel that the 6NA is one of my best friends in my installs. It does future proof our installations as best we can for our clients.

[bradkas]

Really good post. ^

[mitche]

Wow, thanks.

A lot to think over.
Sounds like you have had success with Elite and the 6NA.

"There will be failures in LED recess cans, wether it comes in a year, or even five years down the road."
This is still a bone to pick with clients. They always ask "they last for said period of time and you garantee for said period right?".
Every thing fails sooner or later even the mighty LED.

[hanshi]

Use the Product Selection Tool at www.lutron.com/led to see what will work with RadioRA 2. Sometimes the 6NA is not the best option. The 10ND often will work better. There are report cards on there that tell you the minimum and maximum amount of fixtures, dimming range, and other characteristics to consider when dimming. Don't forget about repetitive peak inrush currents every half cycle. A 7W lamp can be perceived by the dimmer as 75W or even 100W and can quickly overload a dimmer. The Lutron LED site is a huge help.

[mitche]

Thanks Hanshi

The issues was updated to me today and turns out was referring to cove/rope lighting. Under the LED link www.lutron.com/ResourceLibrary/LEDReportCard/LED_GE_120V%20Cove%20Report%20Card.pdf I see Ra classic. Would this type of GE still work for RA-2? Of course I know it's not going to be the 5NE.

A little ad on question. Is the problem that LED's are like electronic, that they can damage the wrong dimmer or that because of the dimming qualities LED won't dim properly?

[hanshi]

Your best bet with this is to use a 6NA as the theme I see on the report card is with FET based, reverse phase dimming. I'd try to keep the trim range to what the 5NE has listed and stick to the maximum fixture limit or very close to it as the 5NE saw this fixture as nearly 32W a piece. Obviously the 6NA is not on the report card but that's probably just because it wasn't around when this was first tested but it would seem a likely fit.

As for the issues, the LEDs are electronically driven by a ballast/driver. The challenge is in sending a signal to the driver that it can understand and this manipulate it's load properly. Sometimes the unlatching of a triac can be misinterpreted as a voltage fluctuation and, if the driver sees voltage input changes as an indication to vary the output intensity, the driver will change the lamps light level quickly only to go back to the normal level as the triac latches again and begins to conduct. This is an effect known as shimmering. FETs are more desirable in these instances but the real issue is that no two drivers are really the same. Some are perfectly ok with triac based, forward phase dimmers.